Close

    • White House to rescind waiver which allows California to set its own emissions rules - EPA will set standard

      Unfortunately politics often have a major effect on car enthusiasts and those in California living under CARB's (California Air Resources Board) iron fist are all too familiar with this. California in particular seems determined to infringe on the rights of car enthusiasts.


      Even if you do not live in California that does not mean CARB does not influence you. Back in 2017 an article about how other states would recognize CARB standards showed you that California policies could be applied in your own state.

      This was a big problem:

      Want to know what is truly troubling? Arizona, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and the District of Columbia all decided to agree to CARB's standards. That means many of you are not exempt from California's eco-nazis even if you do not live in California.
      We say it was a problem because the Trump administration is going to rescind the California waiver that allows California to set its own standard. The USA will have one standard under the EPA.

      In the very near future, the Trump administration will begin taking the steps necessary to establish one set of national fuel-economy standards,” Mr. Wheeler said.
      Rescinding the waiver would fulfill a longstanding goal of the administration to curb California’s influence over the car industry with its ability to set more stringent emissions rules than federal mandates. In July, four car companies— Ford Motor Co. , Honda MotorCo. , Volkswagen AG and BMW AG —signed an agreement with California to meet tougher emission requirements than those proposed by the Trump administration.

      In response, the White House directed regulators to accelerate efforts to remove California’s waiver, according to people familiar with the plan, and make that plan separate from their broader efforts to rollback fuel-economy rules.
      This makes much more sense for the automotive industry and does not allow California to dictate policy that goes well beyond the state's purview. Politicians in California are of course already shrieking:

      California’s Attorney General on Tuesday vowed to sue the Trump administration if it moved forward with revoking the state’s authority to enforce stricter car emission standards.
      California is not its own country that is allowed to dictate policy for other states and the White House is correct in choosing one federal standard versus multiple standards which is not friendly for the automotive industry.

      California simply will not win this battle with the federal government.

      Source

      This article was originally published in forum thread: White House to rescing waiver which allows California to set its own emissions rules - EPA will set standard started by Sticky View original post
      Comments 15 Comments
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        California simply will not win this battle with the federal government.
        Quoted for posterity.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Quoted for posterity.
        Any idea why you think California can just ignore the federal government?

        With the EPA waiver rescinded they do not have the authority any longer. California does not decide whether they get the waiver. The federal government does.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Because they'll appeal it and hopefully drag it out long enough that we have an administration that isn't dead set on throwing anything resembling environmental protection out the window in office.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Because they'll appeal it and hopefully drag it out long enough that we have an administration that isn't dead set on throwing anything resembling environmental protection out the window in office.
        Why would you think this is throwing environmental protection out the window? The EPA is setting the standard, not CARB.

        Why one state should be allowed to set new rules which require automakers to comply in order to sell cars is rather insane. What, we should have California edition cars and then USA edition cars?

        I'm quite puzzled you don't understand this.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Why would you think this is throwing environmental protection out the window? The EPA is setting the standard, not CARB.

        Why one state should be allowed to set new rules which require automakers to comply in order to sell cars is rather insane. What, we should have California edition cars and then USA edition cars?

        I'm quite puzzled you don't understand this.
        The "EPA" is repealing other standards as part of their new direction.

        California has $#@! air circulation and is over populated. Other states aren't. Should California remove seismic requirements from their building code while we're at it? It's not fair that developers face increased cost to build there! Right?

        I say that as hyperbole but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Trump's next move at this point.
      1. Sticky's Avatar
        Sticky -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        The "EPA" is repealing other standards as part of their new direction.
        Those included in the waiver, right? The EPA is not removing emissions standards.

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Other states aren't. Should California remove seismic requirements from their building code while we're at it?
        I don't see the analogy. Why would removing those equate to having separate automotive emission standards?

        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        It's not fair that developers face increased cost to build there! Right?
        When you build something it is by the very nature of building that a physical location is involved. Earthquake prone areas get reinforced, hurricane prone, etc. A car is transportation. Your comparison simply does not work.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        I don't see the analogy. Why would removing those equate to having separate automotive emission standards?



        When you build something it is by the very nature of building that a physical location is involved. Earthquake prone areas get reinforced, hurricane prone, etc. A car is transportation. Your comparison simply does not work.
        How does it not work? My point is that the different conditions in California (over population, lack of air circulation, and sitting on a mountain range) are equivalent to a different physical location. Therefore different standards are necessary.
      1. Bowser330's Avatar
        Bowser330 -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        California is not its own country that is allowed to dictate policy for other states.
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
        Arizona, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington, and the District of Columbia all decided to agree to CARB's standards.
        Which one is it? You can't have it both ways


        Is California dictating policy for other states?

        OR

        The other states decided themselves it was best for their residents.

        Climate change is real and we should be doing everything we can to limit emissions that worsen the environment. However I do agree that we need to press hard on our international partners in this as they are polluting WAY more than we are. Their defense is that we polluted in the past while we had the USA industrial revolution why shouldn't they be allowed a similar pass. My argument would be lets partner together and utilize new technology to allow those countries to grow and prosper while limiting the effects on the environment. Example, new powerplant technology in the US could be implemented in India and drastically reduce their emissions. However I am not hearing its happening....why? Let's give incentives to our energy companies for being good global citizens.
      1. Vlps's Avatar
        Vlps -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        The "EPA" is repealing other standards as part of their new direction.

        California has $#@! air circulation and is over populated. Other states aren't. Should California remove seismic requirements from their building code while we're at it? It's not fair that developers face increased cost to build there! Right?

        I say that as hyperbole but I wouldn't be surprised if it were Trump's next move at this point.
        Maybe if california weren't so liberal with its homeless laws the environment would be better. LA and SF streets are covered in trash and feces (literally)

        check this funny graph out:

        https://static1.businessinsider.com/...ciscochart.jpg
      1. BLKROKT's Avatar
        BLKROKT -
        Good riddance to CARB. Give the fight to the Supreme Court ASAP please. Impose stricter emission requirements on anything with more than 2 axles to make up for it (currently subject to basically no standards whatsoever). Problem solved and we can be enthusiasts again.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BLKROKT Click here to enlarge
        Problem solved and we can be enthusiasts again.
        Stock cars today are outrunning highly tuned cars from a decade ago and today's bolt-on cars were race car territory in the mid 2000s.

        What is there to complain about?!
      1. BLKROKT's Avatar
        BLKROKT -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Stevenh Click here to enlarge
        Stock cars today are outrunning highly tuned cars from a decade ago and today's bolt-on cars were race car territory in the mid 2000s.

        What is there to complain about?!
        I don’t like stock cars. I like working on them. I like improving them. I bought it, I own it, I should be able to do whatever I want with it.

        You aren’t allowed to “bolt on” in CA. That’s exactly the point.
      1. Stevenh's Avatar
        Stevenh -
        Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BLKROKT Click here to enlarge
        I don’t like stock cars. I like working on them. I like improving them. I bought it, I own it, I should be able to do whatever I want with it.

        You aren’t allowed to “bolt on” in CA. That’s exactly the point.
        Well, this is a free country and you can chose where you live....

        There are so many stock frame turbo options that would easily pass visual (gut the stock DP) that I don't see that being as much of an issue as it used to be. If you live your life a quarter mile at a time and that isn't fast enough you should probably move to to the middle of the country where smog is a non-issue and you have wide open highways all around.
      1. BLKROKT's Avatar
        BLKROKT -
        a) I don’t have any turbos
        b) it’s not that easy to pass a visual
        c) quarter mile is boring
        d) these eco-nazis ruin everything for the common man. There are far more flagrant vehicular polluters that have waivers for purely political reasons, while the basically immaterial run-of-the-mill consumer takes the brunt. It’s unfair.
      1. Terry@BMS's Avatar
        Terry@BMS -
        Really excited to see how this all shakes out. If they nerf CARB for new vehicle standards does that also apply to aftermarket parts? The Federal 1A emissions standard is a lot less onerous than the CARB standard and as far as I can tell just as effective.